InsurTech LA - fireside chat with Jen Friel, CMO of DropIn

[Gilad] (facing the audience) Jen has a very diverse and impressive background of doing, and I don’t know where to start. I went over Jen's bio, and when we chatted in the prep call, I realized that she had her first startup at the age of 8, and now she is in insurance.
Do you want to start maybe with a ‘wow’ moment?

[Jen] Um, ‘wow’ moment I feel like has been all of it and I know that’s like pretty much the corniest thing you could say, but I’ll give you guys a super brief overview. I call it my elevator pitch that I’ve said thousands of times at this point but I still love it, and every time I’m like, “Holy crap! I actually did that!” Um, in May of 2010 I gave up everything that I owned, and I bartered social media to live for a year. I got through 12 states with $10 to my name; I crashed the Grammy awards to meet Pete Cashmore—and I found him—I danced on stage with Prince, and then I accidentally went on over 103 dates in nine months, documenting the organic root of attraction using the OKCupid algorithm. After I had walked away from all of it, lived on an island, sold another company to a CNBC show, and uh then Jerry Bruckheimer bought my life rights twice with Warner Bros, and it was in a four-way bidding war between ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox. Had no intention of ever ending up in insurance, even though it’s our family business.

[Gilad] Please continue. Are we going to see a pilot or are we going to see a movie? What’s…?

[Jen] Yeah! It’s super cool! I'm pumped! Warner Bros and Bruckheimer....

-- LA talk (please watch the video recording for additional information - the editor) --

[Gilad] What's your background?

[Jen] I’m from West Hartford, Connecticut. I don’t know if this is still true, but Hartford, growing up at least, was the insurance capital of the world. And my parents are both in insurance still. My mom started her own marketing consulting company, and my father is a corporate insurance lawyer. They’ve left Connecticut. They live in Miami, which is a fantastic place to go, and visit. Both my parents have been in insurance for so long and my grandparents were in insurance. It was pretty much the last thing anybody ever thought I would end up being in, is insurance.

[Gilad] I am not familiar with people who planned to have a career in insurance.

[Jen] It’s not sexy. Insurance is like… Calling a spade a spade is not sexy. No kid grows up and says, “I’m going to be in insurance.” and even now, going on Facebook, the majority of my friends, we all laughed about it growing up. Oh, I guarantee you that the majority of them now all work in insurance and it’s wonderful.

[Gilad] What do they do now?

[Jen] My mom, she—literally she’s a one-woman operation. Um, basically anything that you’ve read from Mass Mutual, Capital One, I don’t even know half of her clients. She’s literally a one-woman shop, and I’ll be—again, she only did this so that she could afford the daycare to take care of my brother and I because they had us so young. So, she’s still in operation. She’s still in very high demand and anything that you’ve ever read from those companies, my mom probably wrote, any of the marketing materials.

[Gilad] How did you end up in insurance?

[Jen] The Founder, Louis Ziskin, is a fascinating individual that brought me in. Earlier, I walked away from everything; I built the website, it’s a talk nerdy to me TV show, it was my baby. And still is.

-- additional LA talk --

... Oprah’s love ambassador happened to reach out to me and....  I happen to have connections in media, and I pitched it on the West Texas Investors Club—Brewster and Butch are still my favorite people on the planet...

[Audience] May I ask which Island you were living on?

[Jen] Islamorada in the Florida Keys. It was funny because it is a 4,000 population town...  see a guy that looks like George Clooney, it probably is George Clooney, but not in 4,000 population town...

[Gilad] Thank you for asking about the island. I will bring us back to talk about insurance. It is your journey. So, you met Louis...

[Jen] Yes. Oh, fascinating individual. He fired me from the first project, which was great because that was right when I started dating the guy that I moved to the island for and I was like, “I have no commitment to LA anymore, let’s do this.”


I know kind of how to undersell or oversell. So, that was immediately what I was attracted to in Louis. It was the fact that he’s such a brilliant businessman. And again, he just had this idea that he though after looking at the FA regulations for drones “Well, I don’t have to control the drone. I just have to control the person controlling the drone.” And he was fascinated by live streaming from drones. He realized pretty quickly the limitations of it “Well, what if we don’t use drones, what if we just use our smartphones?” And how does it work? And live-streaming from there? So, initially, the product was going to be a B2C product. He thought it’s going to be an Uber for live video. And then he’s said, “Wait a minute, this is going to open up way too many doors that probably shouldn’t be opened.” So, uh, then he started doing some research on insurance, and he realized, “Well, one-fifth of one percent makes us a hundred million dollar company. So, that was a super attractive figure for someone who’s so, you know, brilliant with numbers and, uh, and making money.

[Gilad] Okay, and is he still involved or was there a change recently?

[Jen] Yeah, so we have a new CEO, Emilio. He came on board, last October. Emilio spent 25 years in the industry. I pushed him to be here. Usually, it is him or Louis who does the talks.

[Gilad] He’s supposed to be Europe now, right?!

[Jen] Yeah, he’s traveling all over the place. He was in San Francisco previously; he’s going back to England, uh, so the company’s doing well. Emilio has 25 years of insurance background, he speaks the language and understands all the acronyms. In the beginning, I used to listen and thought “Oh my god, I have to Google this afterward.” It is great to have an executive with experience in the industry to lead a tech startup.

[Gilad] Okay, I think we should stop here and explain what’s DropIn is all about. We overwhelm the audience with other details.

[Jen] DropIn is a live video platform. We digitize the claims process from start to finish. Technically underwriting as well. Instead of having to send an adjuster out that costs $600 to $800, we’re able to do it for $15 all in a matter of seconds from your smartphone. We also have AR capability that allows you to take measurements, and you can truly digitize a claim from start to finish. We’re integrating AI technology that no one knows yet because we haven’t announced it.

[Gilad] Shhhh…it’s on camera.

[Jen] It’s super, super interesting, the way that we're doing it. Emilio brought this up. He said “The AI capability isn’t about catching a thief, so to speak, making false claims. It’s about finding that person that’s brutally honest, that’s telling you exactly as it is because the odds of them having another claim is only once every seven years." You want to take care of that person, knowing that if you process their claim fast enough, they’re going to be super loyal to you.

[Gilad] You are helping the carriers to utilize claims as a way to improve customers retention.

[Jen] Absolutely, because I mean, I think we’ve all been in that same boat. I’ve been in car accidents, I’ve lost everything I own in a cockroach infestation, so I had to deal with renter’s insurance at that time. It’s painful. You’re going through a loss by definition, and at that moment, all you want is someone to be human and empathize with you. People like to hear “You know, I’m sorry you’re having such a bad day" or "let me get this taken care of for you” and mean it, and do something about it. Then you’d win my business, hands down. I’m going to tell ten of my best friends and get everybody else on board, too.

[Gilad] Do we have agents in the room today?

[Audience] What happens if there’s a drone and it’s supposed to be close to the house…?

[Jen] We started with drones, and then we moved to cell phones, then we wound up back in drones. But all it is, is you literally, the insurance adjuster logs into the platform, which we give them access to and whatnot. It’s only $15 a claim; they enter the client’s phone number, any sort of description that they want or anything in between. We don’t keep any information on the client; we only have a reference number to preserve privacy and security. We don't have information that we shouldn’t have access. The customer then sends the text message, and they go live in a matter of seconds. It’s geo-tagged, so you can see that this is occurring exactly where it says it’s occurring. And if the person happens to be hard of hearing, we have chat capabilities so that you can chat back and forth. In case of low lighting, we have a flashlight option so that you can see. We brought back the drone when we started talking with insurance companies. Their representatives asked, “What do we do for rooftop inspections?”As you know, claims adjuster needs to climb up roofs and gather information for a claim filing. Sending an adjuster to climb a roof is a liability for the insurance companies. You don't wish the adjusters to step on something and then fall into a hole themselves? So, that’s a huge undertaking for them and uh and so we wound up back in drones, but we’re the only company that does this as well with less than one-second latency. So, we’re truly live stream from a drone, which is remarkably cool.

[Audience] But, who takes care of the drone?

[Jen] We have a fleet of Droperators. There are 1,300 of them globally. We support direct-to-drone capabilities, the same as you have with a text message. If they have a drone, you just send them a text message to their phone, and they go live.

[Audience] You can process a claim?

[Jen] Yeah, yeah mostly PNC.

[Audience] Even auto?

[Jen] Yeah.

[Audience] And in your definition, ‘adjustment’ means cutting a check, or…?

[Jen] We don’t cut the checks, no, all we do is basically—we’re the facilitator that digitizes the input-gathering process, and as a result, you don’t need to send out an adjuster. So, instead of the client being out, sometimes months for some of these claims, the carrier can send them a quick text message and have them go live. And again, from start to finish you can process it. Because of the AR capability that we have as well, you’re able to take measurements while streaming with over 99% accuracy, which is wild.

[Audience] What happens if the people don’t want to report it?

[Jen] Um well, I mean we can’t—you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. Do they want their claims processed? Then that’s entirely up to them. If they want it done faster, this we are a solution. If for example, the client is potentially someone who’s older and has a clam phone or things of that nature, that’s where we have Droperators that can go and facilitate that. But if they want out of the process entirely, sure, that’s on them.

[Gilad] How do you make sure that they take the right picture?

[Jen] It’s all done live. The adjuster directs them and provides feedback.

[Gilad] The adjuster. And where do they see it?

[Jen] They’re directing, so they see it on the DropIn platform, which I’m happy to give demos and whatnot afterward if you guys want to see the platform. The bottom line is that the adjuster is seeing everything in real time live. So, they’re saying, “Go left. Go right.”  “Zoom in on this.” Other companies have these options where the instructions are ‘take these photos and upload them to an app.’ The outcome can be a little blurry, maybe the customers didn’t capture the target. It’s the pain and the inconvenience of the customers having to go back and do the same thing again versus having a live stream of it. You snap a photo right there, and you’re good, and you’re done.

[Gilad] Who are your competitors?

[Jen] Who are our competitors? WeGOLook, technically, although they’re considered more, they’re not truly a tech product, but they had phenomenal acquisition from Crawford, which is great and we’re really pumped for their success. And, uh, LiveGenic is probably the closest, SnapSheet is another. And uh, yeah, but I mean other than that, the second we announce our AI capabilities, that’s kind of…

[Gilad] How are you compared to WeGoLook and CCC?

[Jen] Um, where are we in comparison? But again that’s the thing. So we’re in implementation process.

[Gilad] Each one has a different dimension right?

[Jen] Yeah, totally. And the second that we announce our AI capability—it’s again, we’re going to be an entirely different level. I don’t even know who our competitors are going to be in the AI space, but that’s going to be super interesting, and we’re in implementation stage right now, which is cool.

[Gilad] We just segued into positioning within the market. Before we transition to talk about branding, let's close this topic. CCC, they have estimated 80% of the market in terms of the claims and taking the pictures and compiling them into old school PDF that you can print if you like and WeGoLook, they are doing an amazing job in terms of the gig economically and fetching…

[Jen] Robin is a hustler. I respect that woman. I have met her…

[Gilad] She’s originally from Oklahoma or something like that.

[Jen] Oh yeah. That’s where their offices are. Our former COO and I went over there. I watched her take control of things the coffee pot needed to be turned off and then we were running into this conference room, but it was like she just owned it. She was like this magical woman. I was captivated by her.

[Gilad] She is very impressive.

[Jen] Yeah.

[Gilad] Regarding the values dimensions DropIn has a little bit of everything. How did you manage to decide on that poisoning in that valuable position?

[Jen] In terms of our value prop, I mean it was blind luck to be perfectly honest.

[Gilad] Well, that’s fine you know part of start-ups, it’s all about that.

[Jen] Yeah, it was. Raising funds was easy for the founder because he’s very good at figuring those things out. And so the second that he saw the market share there, that was a no-brainer. But, everything else, it was just kind of general feedback. I think that’s the most exciting part about start-ups, for me. I love when you can move fast when you‘re lean and especially when you put smart people in a room, and you brainstorm some ideas out and whatnot. It provides the feeling that you can solve a majority of the world’s problems pretty quickly when you’re in that kind of environment. So we were able to move, you know, faster than a lot of other people who have been in this space for almost a decade and, uh, now we are where we are.

[Gilad] Okay. So, uh, who are your customers?

[Jen] So we have a very large tier 1 customer that we just finished a concept. And just this past week, we launched with a very large UK reseller. They secured us a very, very big client. It is fascinating to me because they wanted to use the Droperators over there. I thought it was interesting because they thought, “We weren’t sure the rate of adoption of people digitizing.” The whole process of digitizing claims made people a little nervous. People say to themselves “Well, I make, $60,000 a year, this is what I do for a living, I get X amount of vacations, I get you know this that and the other thing.” So, it’s going to be interesting to see how this transformation plays out regarding what kind of—what adoption occurs faster and when.

[Gilad] You like the business to be fast and agile so you can move. And then your customers are not agile. How was that process?

[Jen] Oh, on boarding’s been wonderful.

[Gilad] What is the brand that you’re trying to build to reach your second, third and fourth customer?

[Jen] Yeah, so obviously now, I mean, the second—its going to be super interesting this is kind of, as a company, our microphone drop and I know I keep referencing it, but our AI technology is going to be awesome. So I’m more curious about that. Our solution fits for insurance, but it opens us up to a broader audience. You’re able to look at a video and tell based on facial cues and voice recognition how whether or not someone’s lying.

[Gilad] What is your role?

[Jen] Technically, whatever it takes to get it done. So I've been in the company since day two. I was Chief Revenue Officer; I've called myself Custodial Engineer; I'm Chief Marketing Officer. Just whatever it takes, and that's my personality and mentality.

But I love too, being the chick, in this scenario, and especially at InsurTech Connect. Because, I wait for these dudes to come up to me and say  "hey, there's no way you're in insurance" and I'm like "Oh yeah..." [laughs] This is when I do most of the work. It's awesome. Well, that's all marketing is at the end of the day.

I'm not a booth-babe. I was a model many moons ago, as in Deal or No Deal. That was the only reason why I knew, back in the day, what influencer marketing was. I could not wear a shirt; take a picture of it, and have it... Sell it. But not for insurance.

[Gilad] What type of a brand are you trying to build?

[Jen] Our great product!
I know it's actually kind of corny -- I feel that marketing is about telling a story. We built a cool product. It's a phenomenal team behind it, and I just can't speak highly enough of everybody at the company.

[Audience]  So you're saying, you have a technology, or you're working on technology that will allow you to determine whether someone is lying, or not.

[Jen] Yes. It's a partnership that we have the exclusive license. So now, we're going to be able to assess from these videos whether or not someone is lying.

But again, it is not about "catching that thief." Catching the thief is less interesting to the insurance companies, as we found out. It's about taking care of that one person.

That's what Emilio said, our CEO "take care of that one person, and then for the next seven years, you're good."

[Jen] If your heart's racing too high a lie detector will flag it. That's all it does, at the end of the day, is give the insurance company the option to take a second look. We're not saying it is 100% fool-proof, same as the court will not say it. If you take a polygraph, it's like -- is this admissible, is it not? Some people think it's wishy-washy.

[Audience] What about the privacy? you will need consent from the user.

[Jen] Oh, absolutely. We have a big legal team as you can imagine from the founder's history. We have an excellent legal team.

[Audience] Most people are going to say -- "no, I don't want to participate in that."

[Jen] Totally. We're crossing that bridge as we come to it. But the thing is, is that we've received so far, overwhelmingly so, both from the VC side in terms of the investors and the actual insurance carriers, is this is what they want.

We're lean enough that we can operate in that capacity. We're protecting ourselves as a startup, that we're taking certain legalities and liabilities in place.

But again, I feel like that's the exciting part. Being on the cusp, and being on the edge of something that's really, really cool. I feel like that's what gets us up in the morning. Loving insurance every day the last three years.

[Audience] I would think that they would want. Because everyone wants to get, a claim paid.

[Gilad] Yeah. That's the strategy. Carriers want to pay you as fast as possible.

[Audience] The alternative is having an adjuster come to your house and taking the photos. Right?

[Gilad] You, as the person who just suffered damage, you would like to be paid fast, because you would like to get your life back. The carriers would want to pay you as soon as possible. Because then, they can actually pay you a little bit less, and if you drag it -- especially if you take it to court or arbitration -- it means that it will cost them more. Most carriers don't extra want to pay legal fees and allocate resources for it.
The carriers want you to be happy and stay a good customer and to pay you as fast as possible so they will not need to have any more overhead. When everyone is happy, everyone is happy.

[Audience] So Jen. What would you say are some challenges in marketing your technology

[Jen] In the last InsurTech Connect, I remember this one gentleman in particular; he was from Massachusetts, and he used a funny term "you're skirting around a not-so-great area." He was saying that the law said that you had to have eyes. You had to have vision on the actual claims, as per part of the adjustment; you had to have vision on the property. But the way that it was written was very open-ended.

I replied to him right on the call -- which side of the coin do you want me to argue? What's the definition of that? I can't even make fun of it right now. But He didn't understand the product.
That is the big uphill battle --  explaining to people that this is the wave of the future. And then also, too, understanding the rate of adoption, of how we spoon-feed that to them. We're here to help and help everybody win. So instead of having to take time away from your family, going out to all these remote locations, you can do it from your desk. And process exponentially amounts more claims in the process, which takes care of people.

[Audience] So how many other jurisdictions have you operated in?

[Jen] We tested in Japan. We've done Johannesburg. We can go internationally and globally by definition of just the technology that we've built. But regarding to jurisdictions, we just set up a web server in the UK because that was part of the UK insurance policies and whatnot, and we're dealing with equally tier one large carrier, so we had to make sure that that was taken care of, and all of the above. So we have our web servers there. In the future, it depends upon the way the wind blows, quite frankly.

[Audience] What was the strategy to operate outside of the US?

[Jen] They reached out to us. It was when I was on the West Texas Investors Club, super randomly. They did a follow-up. So I was on Season One, and then they did a follow up on Season Two, and I actually, because I was traveling non-stop when all of this was going on -- I was at a conference somewhere in Sunnyvale, and this guy just reached out. Being like,  oh my god, he just happened to be from the UK, but that's the power of TV and marketing, and all of the above. So I took the call, and later he engaged with Luis, the founder, and they went back and forth a bit. Then, he flew out here. He was like -- I don't think you understand; this is the future. But had it not been for the West Texas Investors Club, I don't think that would have happened. It wasn't by choice; I assure you.

[Audience] What advice would you give to people how would like to be in the insurTech industry and how they can get in if they don't have a connection?

[Jen] I think groups like this are amazing!! I think that there really is -- I know you guys were talking launching InsurTech LA Scene, and please, I have connections for you guys as well -- but just having these conversations, figuring out... that's the way to go.

I feel like general team building is always the winner. That quote -- "no man is an island." But it couldn't be truer. Not only is this scene expanding so rapidly and quickly, but also too, insurance people have a lot of money. If you're going after B2B clients, and it's all of the above, then there's so much opportunity in this space. So from the tech side and the monetary side.

I would continue everything that you guys are doing; keep it up. LinkedIn groups are amazing. Facebook groups are where it's at. I don't know if you guys saw with their algorithm change, that now they're populating a lot more from Facebook groups so you'll see them more often in your feed. Get active and involved in all of those as you can. It's brilliant. I use Facebook groups way more than I do LinkedIn.

Keep going. Be part of the conversation. But then also have an opinion. Don't just be the lurker that likes things. Post a comment. Like, I actually read before we bring anybody on board or if I'm doing my digital sleuthing, I'll look at some of their activity and whatnot, and see what comments that they've posted. Like, are they just -- oh, great job, well done -- or do they actually have an opinion. Because people that have an opinion in this space are definitely people that we want at our company.


[Audience] How long would you and how many meetings would you say you have to have with an insurance company to sell your product?

[Jen] Oh god.

[Audience] -- and which department?

[Jen] The ultimate title that you want to go after is any Chief of Innovation, Head of Innovation, or anything with innovation. I'm a hacker, and kind of growth-happy -- but one of the things I was doing on the side was just there this Chrome browser extension you can get called Dux-Soup. What you do is you type in a search for "chief innovation officer" or like you put in certain key-words. Then all it does is go and visit the profile of that person. So one of the number one things people do on LinkedIn -- you check and see who checks out your profile. So it's just this little technique. Then you can also obviously set up another funnel where you can have it go to send them a LinkedIn message. But I get inundated on LinkedIn. But you can do some interesting -- I don't want to say "data scraping," but should you want to do some data scraping and have some info on that, it's information that's all available.
Work smarter, not harder, and you have a really good work-flow in terms of your follow-up with these people... You could probably do it way faster than we did because that was all stuff that we just had to learn by doing.

[Audience] How long did it take to find the first customer?

[Jen] Well, it took two years. Almost two and a half for our first big client. We were part of the Plug and Play accelerator. So if any of you can ever be involved in accelerators from the tech side, I would recommend it. We had great success then.

[Gilad] How did you handle the change of the CEO?

[Jen] We did one press release. I will tell you this. PRNewswire is amazing. If you sign up for their press releases, especially in the insurance feed, I specifically timed out our release to go live right before InsurTech Connect. Not one, not two, but three people came up to congratulate me on our CEO change. Later, more people approached me to say congrats on your CEO change. That was the best 900 dollars that we spent to promote the company because it worked.

[Audience] How big is the company?

[Jen] Technically, outside of the reseller agreement that we signed, because we have the company in the UK too, we're at about twelve, and we have thirteen Droperators. That is our focus.
We thought people would have wanted it more for the smartphones. But actually, this is another marketing growth hack. Craigslist -- the free Craigslist options that they have to post gigs, so don't pay for the actual listings. So we had a full sales team when we first started. We had about eight people in there, just literally picking up the phone and cold-calling all these courier companies. That was the approach initially. It didn't work. I asked, "what am I doing wrong?" Closed my office door, and I had an idea of posting on Craigslist. The result was over 4000 downloads in a handful of days, and we had more Droperators than we knew what to do with.

[Audience] Adoption rate can be slow. So how do you gauge how much innovation you should present when pitching?

[Jen] Great question.

At first, we went in and -- oh, my God; this is the coolest thing ever -- and there was like -- we should probably take this down ten notches.

It took us as a company a little bit of that learning curve. We were all excited and proud of what we built. Again, it was in the spoon-feeding of the on-boarding process that taught us that -- wait, let's actually, let them crawl, let them walk, and then teach them how to run.

[Audience] How do you find your tech talent? And also, how did you screen them?

[Jen] That's a great question. Some word of mouth. We tried a couple of consultancy companies, but it didn't work, not because of the person or the individual, but just the high prices that were attached to it.


[Audience] Where do you get your content or keywords for what people in the industry

[Jen] There's a service that we're just starting to use. it's called "Audience." Also, Google does a ton of that, where you can find out your competitors' keywords and what they're using in their AdWords searches. "Audience" is excellent, because it's hyper analytics, and it tells you backgrounds on not only what's trending, but what's working in the space in terms of conversions.

[Audience] Piggy-backing off of that question. In terms of keywords, you're creating an innovative idea that people don't know to search for because it doesn't exist. How do you promote it?

[Jen] It was very difficult in the beginning. I love the fact that it was very psychological. I took a lot of meetings and gathered a lot of feedback from them. Then broke down the psychology of who I viewed our end user as being. Then trying to figure out how to reverse engineer that to present that to them, based on something that they're searching for anyway.

[Audience] Would you say that's your most epic channel?

[Jen] It's worked so far. It was good enough to get our name out there. Luis is on the cover of Carrier Management Magazine, which is a big deal in the insurance industry.

[Gilad] How do you measure the success of the product?

[Jen] One, by listening to the customer. Because that's, again, being so lean, we can do that. And the second we on-board anybody. Do people keep using it? So if you keep using us, that's successful from our eyes.

[Gilad] OK. Fantastic. Great.
And now to my favorite part of the interview - a list of questions inspired by James Lipton and Tim Ferriss.
What is your favorite word?

[Jen] Splendiferous, or perpendicular. I won a spelling bee championship for that in fourth grade.

[Gilad] What turns your creative juices?

[Jen] Music. I almost always... And especially, because I don't really speak at anything very often. As a writer, I always have -- and any time I blog -- there's always a song that I listen to. But I listen to it obsessively for like a week.

[Gilad] One song?

[Jen] One song over and over and over, because I'm processing how I want to write the post. It's almost words are like music notes to me, where I have a symphony of how I want these beats to hit, and it's always the perfect song.

[Gilad] What book do you like to gift?

[Jen] Oh, The Alchemist. Easy.

Super easy. I rarely ever have a copy of The Alchemist actually in my hand. So it's technically two books. Obviously The Alchemist. But then the second one is "What Every Body is Saying" it's by a guy, Navarro. He was an FBI profiler. It gives people a baseline. It doesn't go into like, NLP, or anything super high-tech. But it just gives you kind of a baseline of body language, which is fascinating.
The Alchemist for sure. Then I always get mad when I give my copy away with all of my notes in the ledger. But I still give it away. Because every time I read it, I take something totally different that I didn't see the time before.

[Gilad] Who is your hero. Fictional, or real.

[Jen] Carney. My father. My father, hands down. My mother, too. Obviously, my parents. But my father is... And it changes too. Growing up, I always idolized my mother. I had my first company when I was eight. Because my mom carried business cards so I would also carry business cards. I emulated her to such a degree.


[Gilad] Jen, thank you very much. Everyone, thank you for coming.

[Jen] Thank you.

[Gilad] Thank for your time.

[Jen] Thank you.